Q&A on Forensic Files Cases Solved on America’s Most Wanted
Before Dirty John or Jodi Arias or Steven Avery — even before Forensic Files and Dateline NBC — there was America’s Most Wanted.
With his weekly true-crime show, host John Walsh produced segments on violent felons with one particular circumstance in common: They were on the run.
America’s Most Wanted got off to a modest start in 1988, then exploded in popularity after leading authorities to John List, an accountant who killed his family in Westfield, New Jersey in 1971 and then vanished for 18 years.
In the long-running series, Walsh asked viewers to call in with tips, which ultimately helped law enforcement capture 1,200 fugitives and find dozens of missing kids. In 2019, the Investigation Discovery network collared him for a new show, In Pursuit with John Walsh.
While typical true-crime fans like me enjoy the genre because of the drama and intrigue, Walsh has always had a dog in the race. In 1981, his son Adam, age 6, was kidnapped from a Florida mall and murdered, and Walsh wanted to help authorities stop other predators.
I got a chance to meet Walsh at IDCon 2019 in New York, and he indulged my curiosity about John List and John Hawkins — AMW bad guys who Forensic Files ended up profiling on favorite episodes.
Here are edited excerpts of our conversation:
How did the John List case end up in your hands? I had received letters and a petition from friends of John List’s children in New Jersey, begging us to take the case.
We had already captured someone on the 10 Most Wanted List, and the FBI came to me and said, “How about trying a cold case? We’ve spent over a million dollars and not one clue.”
We were turning down 150 cases a week then. I picked John List because of the way these wonderful people and the FBI challenged me.
What were the obstacles? This was back in 1988, so there was no internet, no computer-aging. The FBI only had a photo of John List from 20 years ago.
So I went to Frank Bender, a sculptor friend of mine in Philadelphia who put together clay re-creations of dead children when we would send him their skulls.
I said, “Frank, this is a guy named John List who murdered his mother, his three children, and his wife. He’s been out there for years.”
He said, “John List will be balding and probably have had skin cancer. These are the glasses I think he’s got.” And he went to an antiques store and picked out these round glasses.
He spent three months making an age-progressed bust. We showed the sculpture on TV and got 20 calls from Richmond, Virginia, saying he’s here.
When the cops and FBI went to arrest him, John List had on the round glasses like the ones on the bust. He was still an accountant, still belonged to a Lutheran church, and he was remarried.
The apprehension of John List enthralled the world. What was that like? It was our first big capture. It was on the front page of the New York Times — it ran a picture of the bust. People in New Jersey were thrilled. It launched the show.
Were you satisfied with the sentence List received? List made this plea at the trial — “I’m old and feeble” and all this crap. And the judge was fantastic. He said, “Here before the jury, you might see an older man, but this is the time for the List family to talk from the grave. You’re going to jail and you’re never getting out.” He died in jail.
Shifting to a criminal who’s still among the living, do you remember John Hawkins? He was the sweatpants retailer-con man who conspired in a murder-insurance fraud plot. A brilliant guy, a very tough capture. I almost caught John Hawkins 10 times. I never gave up.
It was the only case where people sent pictures of themselves partying with the fugitive all over the world. I got pictures of him with men, with women. He was engaged to a woman and living with a guy.
He was hiding in plain sight. He was teaching skiing in Canada. He went to England. He went to the south of France.
He was so smart, so handsome, so charming. Once, he claimed he was a movie producer, rented a hotel suite in London, and threw a party. He told everyone to put their coats in a room and then stole from all of them.
How did you finally catch him? Oprah started airing my most wanted. A woman called from Holland. She said, “I’m so mad. I’m engaged to John Hawkins, and he left me.”
She gave us the clue that he bought a catamaran with the name Carpe Diem and was sailing in the Mediterranean and heading to Portofino.
So I got hold of the navy, which had spy satellites in the Mediterranean, and the navy police were there when he landed in Portofino. That night, he put a bed-sheet ladder together in the little jail in Portofino and escaped. One of the guards spotted him walking down the street.
Today Hawkins is out of prison and still saying he didn’t know the plot called for a murder. What do you think? That is bull — he arranged the whole thing. He was the brains behind it. He cashed the insurance check.
You should see the letters Hawkins sent me, “Go fuck yourself. I would have never been caught if not for you.”
What a moron — why try to provoke someone from a prison cell?
Because his ego is as big as this building.♠
You can find links to the TV movie If Looks Could Kill and other related content in “John Hawkins: From Just Sweats to Eternity.”
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Watch the Forensic Files about John List on YouTube or Amazon Prime
Watch the Forensic Files about John Hawkins on YouTube or Amazon Prime
